The Frustrations of Doing Business with Filipinos
This is a guest post by Dagnasty, a US expat living and working in Manila since 2013, doing business alongside local Filipinos.
Makati Avenue, Manila
The bar is set very low when it comes to doing good business in the Philippines. If you can answer a phone, list your business hours, provide a map to your shop, and listen to your customers, you’ll beat out most of your competitors here.
The other day I walked into a motorcycle shop with 100,000 pesos in hand to buy a motorcycle. I asked the saleswoman to show me a used bike. She took me over to the nearest one. Looked great! I told her I’d take it. Right after that, she told me that I couldn’t buy it!
- “Why not?”
- “It’s for installment payment only ser, and foreigners are not eligible for financing.”
- “No problem, I’ll pay 100% cash.”
- “You cannot pay cash.”
- (What the fuck do you mean I can’t pay cash?)
- “So you’re saying, if I paid one million pesos for this scooter, you couldn’t make this sale?”
- “Sorry, I can’t ser…”
- “Two million?”
- “No, I can’t ser.”
I turned to my wife and said, “I gotta get the fuck out of here or someone is going to have to take me to a doctor. I can’t talk to this woman anymore or I’m going to call her an idiot.” My wife turned and said that if she was in charge of the shop, she’d jump off the roof.
Ayala Triangle Gardens, Makati
I walked to the next shop and asked them the same question. One woman said that they do NOT have any second hand bikes for sale. I lied to the woman next to her and said I had a Filipino wife and that everything was ok. The woman next to her said that they DID HAVE bikes for sale and that her coworker would happily show me. One told the other that since I had a local wife, they could make the sale.
At this point, I’m pretty frustrated and I said to the first woman, “Wait, you just told me to my face that you don’t have any motorcycles, how are you going to be able to show me one?” She said that she only had one available. After that, she took me to a beat up piece of garbage in a row of otherwise acceptable second hand bikes and insisted that it was the only one available to me.
I walked away, called an Uber, and agreed with my wife that we’d buy directly from an individual incentivized with getting a sale – and not a store.
Before we left, she also suggested that we push the motorcycle over and break it. So that maybe the clerk would say that we had to pay for it. (When in all honesty, all that would happen is that the cops would show up, demand that we pay a small amount to avoid getting thrown in jail, and the bike would be sat upright and probably sold for the same price or a few dollars less, but not to a foreigner – fuck off and go home!)
Regarding this issue, my friend RealGuy once said, “Often Filipino employees are given zero leeway on what they can do, and are penalized if they go outside their bounds.” This is very true, and managers of Pinoys must be careful to realize that if one step is impossible, everything stops – no matter how obvious the fix.
A high school math teacher once told me, that you need to know 10 different ways to solve any problem or else one day, you’ll be stuck at the top of a steep hill in a car with a dead battery, no jumper cables, nobody to help you, and no idea how to fix your problem.
This is very true – because if you’re a manager here, every day you’re probably going to want to shove one of your employees down a hill.
Working with Filipinos
At my day job, if I told a client who wanted to spend two grand that I couldn’t make a “no questions asked” sale, I’d be dismissed in a matter of seconds. But here, most staff doesn’t give a damn whether the business succeeds or fails.
They have zero incentive to work hard because of their low salaries, poor education, poorer management, and a law that makes them fairly difficult to fire if they’re tenured employees. The Philippines isn’t a poor country, but it is poorly managed.
I once had a professor teach in a class that the amount of trust in any interaction is directly related to the amount of future interactions you’ll have with the other party. After my time in South East Asia, I have to disagree. I’ve seen vendors that could have a customer for life – decide to make a quick buck due to lack of foresight. Some people here really believe that a dollar today is better than five dollars tomorrow.
It’s frustrating to watch this kind of incompetence, but that’s where outside business owners can otherwise crush their competition. RealGuy also said, “the problem is, once someone has your money here, they have no incentive to deliver on promises or honor agreements.”
You might ask yourself, what could you possibly sell in the Philippines that they don’t already have? My answer – customer service. In a country filled with customer service call centers for almost anything, there’s surprisingly little customer service actually happening on the ground here. There’s lots of lip service (bullshit), but very few promises are actually kept.
Filipino Fast Food chain
If something gets promised and doesn’t get done right away, that’s definitely a promise that’s not getting kept. I once had a long coffee meet with one of the richest businesswomen in the Philippines and her stock trader. Her trader said to both of us, “If you want to make any money in this city, sell coffee, convenience food, candy, or condoms.”
We all started cracking up when she said condoms (Really? Who uses those here?) – but her point stands, cheap stuff sells at a high volume in Manila.
The problem with selling cheap stuff is that you’ll need to sell a lot of it. Most used to a western salary will find it faster and smarter to fly home to make a quick buck than a quick peso. The good news is, there’s no shortage of buyers with a few pesos in their pockets.
If you’re an outsider and you can treat your customers better than everyone else, you might stand to come out ahead for a short while (until local elites notice and want their cuts).
Realistically, the Philippines is one of the most difficult countries in Asia to do legal business in. “It takes 161 days of starting a business, among the worst in the world, compared to only a day in New Zealand, 2 days in Australia, 3 days in Canada, and 4 days in Singapore.”
Ayala Avenue, Makati
There are plenty of hoops and red tape to jump through, and many “fixers” who would happily take piles of your money to help you navigate the bureaucracy of working in the Philippines.
The Pinoy economy is fairly protectionist mandating that local citizens own the majority share of most any business.
Some expats use the assistance of a Filipino business partner or spouse, but any long-timer here will tell you a dozen sad stories about foreigners having their legally capped 40% stake in a business stolen from them (despite financing 100% of the business).
Trust doesn’t go very far here, and the most successful foreign business owners have local owners (in name only) while the real boss handles his/her business from a distance.
If you ever get frustrated by doing business with Filipinos here, consider doing things yourself. I’ll always go the extra mile and pay the extra dollar to someone who knows how to get things done in the Philippines.
This is my first time writing on this blog, if you’d like to read more, I’ve got more – let me know your thoughts in the comments below.
Thanks for the guest post Dagnasty! This is why I think it’s best to work online at home if possible, and insulate yourself from a lot of stress.
I think a Filipino’s idea of employer/employee contract is, you have to pay them, but they don’t have to work if they don’t feel like it.
I don’t know if I agree with “The Philippines isn’t a poor country, but it is poorly managed,” but otherwise great info. Perhaps the most interesting thing about the Philippines economy/business world is that Chinese-Filipinos dominate. They are less than 2% of the population but have the majority of the wealth, same is true in most of SEA
Well Han Chinese are much smarter than natives
Well of course, Chinese get the job done, they make their employees work for their salary, and if the thing i want is not in stock they get it for me instead if being a filipino and saying “hindi pwede sir” to everything.
Once all places in town had assured me that the product was impossible to buy in philippines and that no special order was possible, a Chinese guy took one short phonecall and had a box of 10 shipped from Manila.
And thats why Chinese get rich in Philippines, its to easy when the Filipino competition feel like having a stroke if someone need something that is not in stock that day. Only a Filipino can start a business thay earns most of its money during scool lunch break and then decide to keep closed during school lunch break. Why earn 3000 when they can earn 1000 with slightly less effort? I can find 2000 reasons but the typical Filipino small business owner cant find one.
Not much real info here. Phillipinos provide shit service. Obvious to anyone who’s spent 2 days in the country. Also: in one part, you state you “lie” about “having a wife” yet you mentioned twice that you DO have a Filipina wife. Which is it? Did you lie or tell the truth?
Would love to hear more actual info about how shit works in business here, rather than the obvious.
His wife is Chinese. When he says he lied about having a Filipino wife it was in the hope they’d then sell him a bike, being a foreigner.
Ahh, wish he’d made that more clear in post.
Most specific business info you can find from a simple google search. Foreigners can only own 40% of a company unless theyre putting up serious money to strike their own exclusive arrangements.
One of the biggest hassles for business owners is dealing with the beauracracy. Ive heard a lot of stories about local politicians shaking them down for extra “rent” (bribes) and threatening to close them down if they don’t comply.
The other thing is a lot of the police and politicians dont really understand the laws or care, and will always try to be their own law or interpret it in a way that allows them to shake you down. The Philippines is a Catholic country, but “thou shalt not steal” is safely ignored when it comes to the people around them.
I love the Philippines, but I am very hesitant when it comes to putting down serious investment here. Contracts and agreements are rarely honored and often delayed, and once they have your money, their motivation to hold up their part vanishes. Throughout the whole process there are people trying to sabotage your asset or find ways to get more money out of you.
Philippines is best enjoyed if you always have one foot out the door, imo.
Maybe I’m in the minority here but I’m generally pretty happy with the service I receive in the Philippines. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that I’m in Cebu rather than Manila.
They do service us very well in the most important way. Between the sheets.
Service isn’t surprisingly bad in Cebu. I agree. But the staff are usually annoying.
As much as I bitch and moan, I’m still staying here. I have a love hate relationship with PI. I just need to leave often enough to remind myself to come back.
Hey Dagnasty, great article. Question – what do you mean by a foreigner can stand out over there “until local elites notice and want their cut”? Are legit business giants over there (like SM) mafia influenced or something? I’m curious about this cause many of the wealthiest men in the PI are Chinese born immigrants (think Andrew Tan) who are now multi-Billionaires.
Despite the owner of SM being Chinese-Filipino, they’re considered to be more Filipino than Chinese. There have been many struggles by Chinoys through history to claim and retain their profits and property. Chinoys have assimilated enough to not worry about getting hustled like someone fresh off the boat – many can “fake” being 100% Pinoy (because they are, regarding citizenship and language). Chinoys are not to be confused with first generation mainland Chinese immigrants.
So in the case of SM specifically, I’d say no, they ARE some of the local elites. As for being a mafia? Not really, the whole culture is highly protectionist in nature, and so are the big corporations – but I wouldn’t say that it’s outright criminal. Most of the time it isn’t. But for sure, they all have “people” they call when the law doesn’t work. How these guys made it to the top is a different discussion. There are very few “honest” fortunes made anywhere.
When I mentioned the local elites, I meant more of the local government officials who collect local taxes. Since they’re government, they can’t be the mafia by definition. It’s best to treat them with great respect. Mid level Barangay (neighborhood) leaders are the ones who are really in charge, and their blessings are required for anyone to do anything profitable in their part of town.
If you’re someone who makes a lot of money and they find out by surprise, you should expect to get made an offer to save your business that you can’t refuse.
Thanks for the insight, Dagnasty! I’d like to read more from you!
Whoah, first honest article I’ve read about how it really is in the shit hole called the Philippines. I’ve been living in the Philippines for a while, in my experience what they don’t break they steal. There must be a god because he had the foresight to make the Philippines an island so their disease can’t spread to other countries.
Lived in Thailand 7 yrs and now PI 4 yrs. As much as expats complain about Thai ethics, hands down my experiece here is Exactly the same as in this article. Ive never imagined such a dishonest society or such a self destructive culture as in the PI. Yes, the ladies are attractive and available….but quality of life counts too.
WTF! And why do they constantly lie, even if for no benefit? As if lieing is the only way to feel empowered, even about trivial stuff. Weird place.
Speaking of frustrating business, does anyone have a recommendation on a Laundry service in Cebu that offers delivery? Been using I.G., but their service is simply atrocious. They get the laundry done just fine but I always have to ask for it to be delivered and sometimes they drag their feet about it. Would love a simple company that just brings the laundry to my door when it’s done.
Dipp n Dry is what I use.
When my wife’s away I tend to get Pinay service lady rather than foreigners
Sounds just like Vietnam. No consideration given to future repeat business, just think about the moment and how much you can make there and then.
Nice post. I am an exec for a large BPO over here. The attitude for work is something that I struggle with day to day. Not sure if others have found it so, but the degrees from the universities here are worthless. People coming out qualified have the equivalent of first year knowledge in first world economies. I would struggle here as a business owner.
And the degrees in American Universities aren’t worthless?
When did you go to college?
I had an amazing realization today…Sleeping with asian women, if you’re a white guy, is technically bestiality. It’s time we were all honest about this.
You still in Manila? Why is it bestiality? 😳
It’s his justification for treating women like dogs.
where’s the ‘like’ button
doing a short little smash trip Mikey.
Why is it bestiality you ask? Because filipinas are closer to our simian cousins than all you sexpats losers would care to admit.
I have arrived on the Planet of the Apes and I’m here to red pill you all, especially (ab)Normal Nomad, who I see has now left Manila because he couldn’t get laid here. I understand his bitterness. Being rejected by chimps can’t be a nice feeling.
Yeah I’ve been in Cebu for a bit and annoys me how these imps are able to pull hot girls. Guys that are short fat and look like Mannie Fresh. The quality I’ve pulled here is abysmal and I just ended a date an hr ago bc the girl was being an utter cunt despite her face riddled with acne and a 5 at best.
Filipinas are trash and overhyped for sure. This is simply a phase in my life where I bang everything that moves and move on.
Dude I haven’t been in Manila since February, sorry to burst your bubble. And it has nothing to do with the women…..the traffic sucks, the noise pollution is retarded, and everything is more expensive. Honestly I could go to Bangkok, pay the same money, have less noise and traffic issues and bang hotter women, so Manila is 100% pointless.
I don’t think this is actually spirit maze. The real spirit maze claimed to “love Pinays looks” and talked about banging a new hot girl everyday. I think this is some new troll who adpoted his old moniker and hatred of other expats but isn’t the same person.
The real Spirit Maze left Manila 6 months ago, re-entered the West, and returned to Manila for some closure on a very weird chapter of his life.
The real Spirit Maze is severely embarrassed about indulging and pandering to this bearly-human sludge race of dirty little pan heads.
As Mikey correctly indicates above, ‘Over-hyped’ is key here.
Mikey, you know why they are cunts? Because hot white guys like Spirit Maze served them his prime alpha cock and ruined them for life. They have forgotten their place in the food chain, and now they all expect Zac Elfrons. Sorry bro, I’ve seen the folly of my ways now.
Tell that entitled crater-faced aboriginal midget to get fucked.
Spirit Maze always pointed out that white male pandering to filipinas would ruin the poosy paradise it once was.
Is Spirit Maze a prophet? Methinkso.
Normal Nomad, the reason you left Manila is because the VERY average pussy doesn’t justify, as you correctly indicate, the utter shithole that is Manila. Glad we can finally agree on that.
Since returning to Manila, I have encountered hilarious levels of princess-syndrome from these oompa loompa niggers. Yes, Spirit Maze still fucks them all with relative ease, but the effort ain’t worth it. And they certainly aren’t grateful either. They seem to think they are ENTITLED to guys at my level. I tell them ‘no’ and they get confused. They expect white love now. It’s a disaster.
Yes, still much harder in the West to get laid, but ultimately more rewarding. Stop being such pussies, hit the gym, be the best man you can be, and stop hiding out in Asia you cowards.
Like I said, it’s so easy to get laid with much more attractive women in Bangkok that it’s not even worth discussing Manila…..
The only advantage the Philippines holds is cost of living and English speaking. And honestly, you can get by well enough in Bangkok without learning Thai to justify not living in the Phils.
Pinays are pretty ugly on average. There are some hot ones, usually they’re mixed with something. But they require much more effort and a decent level of “game” which kind of negates the whole point of being in Asia as a white guy in the first place.
As for Mikey, no idea where you’re meeting your girls, but dude, I don’t message any girls at all, ever. They come to me. That’s my rule. My other rules is, “They come to me” as in dates, I don’t do them. Period.
Thirsty guys ruin anyplace if they are around long enough.
But if you put a girl in her place you’d be surprised at how quickly her tune changes. I straight up tell them I’m not putting up with their bullshit and a good percentage of them stop putting out bullshit. The rest, well, they figure out eventually that there are a limited supply of white guys (under 35) and an unlimited supply of Pinays.
I’ve always doubted spirit mazes claims of how good looking he is, as a guy who looks that good can get laid in the west with similar levels of effort with much hotter women, so it’s pointless to be here unless you prefer the personality of Pinays (which spirit maze clearly gives no fucks about).
You either highly overestimate your own looks (spending too long in Asia will do that do you) or you just plain lie.
Well I’ve met Jspill. Have you ever met anyone who can vouch for you, Normal?
Have you even been to the Philippines?
Your ‘i don’t put up with bullshit’ advice is terrible. Filipinas run a million miles from bitter gammas like you.
They can smell your ‘i can’t get laid in the West’ vibe a million miles away. It stinks of poor genetics.
In fact, you were so successful here that you left because the traffic was too noisy for your sensitive, gay little ears.
The best advice i can give anyone coming to the Phils is be nice initially (but not too nice), then bait and switch pump and dump and make them cry. It’s lethal.
Being good looking helps a lot. Sorry Normal, looks matter. Even in Manila.
You’re just a troll and not worth bothering with. As I said time and time again, I couldn’t care less what you choose to believe.
A man who was an 8+ has no reason to ever step foot in the Phils, much less sit on an internet blog and bash others he’s never seen or met about their qualifications.
Even if you were as good looking as you say, your posts here reek of insecurity, those who have self-worth have no need to bash others.
“I don’t message any girls at all, ever. They come to me” :
That’s great advice… except that only the lower monkeys message first. My deduction of that is that, Normal, loves slumdogs. I’d even go as far as wondering if Normal uses the jeepney when he buys his groceries. There, the brown girls will come to him (and grimace at him while eating their bananas)
I think a young 8+ guy can still benefit from moving to SE Asia. Brad Pitt said he couldn’t get laid until he became rich and famous, before that he was a handsome nobody doing odd jobs like van driving and dressing in a chicken suit outside a restaurant. Status and money are just as important as looks if not more so, and guys in their 20s haven’t usually built those up yet. I forget how old spiritmaze said he was, but late 20s. Also depends where you’re from in the West, he’s from an expensive city where it’d be hard to pull.
And even if you are getting laid say, every week as an 8+, well spirit maze wanted a girl every day, not many guys can do that in the West even if they are an 8+. Especially not going on dates (spirit maze was just having them meet him in Starbucks beneath Gramercy then inviting them up to ‘check out the view from the tallest condo in the Philippines’). Western girls aren’t going to fall for that, and no 20somethings are renting a condo in the tallest building in their city back home, with enough spare time to grind online dating sites and bang a new girl every day.
So I don’t really buy the ‘if you’re good looking no need to move here’ argument, in a way that’s just a rewording of ‘guys only move to Asia because they can’t get laid back home’. Which isn’t true, we do it to increase the amount we get laid, from X to ten times X, whatever X was. Normal to make things as easy as possible for yourself, even if it wasn’t difficult to begin with.
I can confirm he’s good looking, we went out in a group of guys, one nicknamed him Edward, as in the guy from Twilight. He does look a bit like him.
Another nicknamed him Bateman, he also looks a bit like Christian Bale’s character in American Psycho. That guy had been reading his sociopathic comments on this blog too, so that nickname was really on point.
I can definitely see most pinays finding him attractive, he’s got the tall dark and handsome thing going on, plus skinny and pasty white skin. Then he lies that he’s a lawyer that just arrived and is looking to settle down and get married, even meets their parents… so yeah I don’t disbelieve his 30 girls a month claim based on his looks and lying. I think even without looks if you lie like that, you can get laid almost as much. I wouldn’t want to do that though eventually girls would get angry and make up some false rape allegation or something… which is exactly what happened eventually.
He’s an interesting character, i think you’d get along and enjoy a beer with him Normal Nomad. More humble in real life than it seems from his posts. There’s something unhinged about him when it comes to how he treats women, which he explained was down to some really bad experiences with women when he was younger.
About half the group of mates I was with commented ‘that guy’s weird’ or something along those lines, like a serial killer vibe. One mate was like wtf James why did you bring that guy out. Anyway so we go out to some bars and end up in Royal club. One of my mates opens a group of girls, asking them if we can share their table. They say sure.
The girls have a bucket of beers on their table. At one point spirit maze turns to one of my mates (I found this out later) and says, ‘I’m going to take one of those beers.’ My mate says ‘err bro I think those are the girls’ beers’.
Spirit maze turns to him with a dead eye look and says ‘I know, that’s what makes it fun. I’m going to steal one, watch this’ and he reaches over and grabs it. One of the girls sees but doesn’t react. I find out 5 mins later, I didn’t notice but I’m in a viber group with my mates and they write it in there. One of them is really pissed off, the one that was the most weirded out by spirit maze and asked why I brought him out. I offer the main girl 100 pesos and try to play it off as an accident, saying he didn’t realize that was your beers, she said don’t worry about it. No one ended up pulling any of those girls.
One mate wants to confront spirit maze about it but he’s noticed a girl staring at him, I point her out too. Spirit maze wanders over to her and talks to her a bit, 10 mins later they leave, he bangs her and doesn’t pay, he tells me the next day she didn’t ask for money. Royal is mostly hookers but maybe he gave her his whole lawyer spiel lol. Or maybe she was one of the non-hookers. Anyway it was his first time in Royal or any Manila club I think, and first girl pulled from a club if I recall (all the 300+ others or whatever it was, were from online dating). Pretty good result.
Meh. Good looking losers are still losers.
I don’t buy into “men move to Asia because they can’t get laid back home” either. (Though in my experience that’s probably true in 80% of cases easily….most guys here are chumps.)
Personally I moved here for the weather, English, and the fact that the women act like fucking women. Getting laid like a rockstar is also nice.
Regardless of the truth of what he says, the fact remains that hes got some serious mental deficiencies. Why move to Asia to treat sweet non-jaded women like shit? You can do that in the USA. Plenty of bitches who love being treated like absolute shit. I’m a genuinely good guy, I like being kind to others, but back in the USA I had the asshole cocky jackass vibe so I could get laid. Here I literally just “be myself”, a guy with a motor mouth who rambles on about all sorts of random topics and teases a lot. I just have fun and talk about whatever the fuck I want, no need to pretend and use “game”. Also no need to lie. I just tell them flat out “I’m not interested in a relationship.” About 15% will bow-out, but the majority just go on through.
Now sure, probably 30% of those end up being one night stands (once she figures out I was serious about not wanting a relationship) but if I tell them upfront who I am and what I’m about. They can take it or leave it. I’m probably a 6 1/2 – 7 by western standards, by no means some twilight lookalike, but I do just fine here without treating the girls like shit or lying to them (well I lie about my name, but who doesn’t?)
Anyways your comment confirms what I already knew: Guy is fucked up. Not just as a persona, but in real life, confirmed by multiple people.
It’s fine to treat women like shit, so long as they deserve it. Let me re-phrase: It’s fine to treat ANYONE like shit, if they deserve it. I’ve definitely met a HANDFUL of Pinays that deserve it, but far far fewer than in the west.
Anyways, he knows he’s a piece of shit, so no point in detailing it here. Let him enjoy the ugly chicks in Manila.
That girl from the Royal wasn’t a hooker, and although I got her back to Gramercy quite easily, I had to barrel through some serious LMR to seal the deal. Probably the worst LMR i’ve experienced in Manila thus far.
She was totally frigid once I got her home, which was strange because she was quite flirty when I was chatting to her in the club.
Once I got her home and busted a move, it was clear she was having none of it. She actually threatened to leave my room a few times, but I just lay in bed and didn’t react to her threats, and that seemed to turn her on.
Elaborate shit tests are possible, even from filipinas in clubs who seem initially DTF. I guarantee that if I had have begged her to stay, and acted nice, I would have lost her.
I went ice cold, steely and stopped talking to her. Suddenly my dick was inside her. Go figure.
This is a perfect example of how incongruous female behavior is.
Throughout the course of the hour or so of shit tests, I became convinced that she actually didn’t like me and she really wanted to leave. I acted accordingly and my aloofness seemed to win her over. I distinctly remember feeling pissed off by her behavior (but was careful not to show it). Why on earth would she come home with me and not put out? Luckily I closed her, or I would have chalked that as a very bad experience.
Turns out she was from Mindanao and was up in Manila visiting her cousins. Had a good chat with her about Abu Sayef. Apparently her father was in the military and was killed by one of the abu sayef gangsters. (Who knows if it’s a true story, but I enjoyed it nonetheless).
Normal Nomad swears that non-jaded/easy-going women populate Manila. They don’t. Many of the women in manila are cunts, don’t be fooled. Coming to Manila without any ‘game’ exposes us to a lot of unnecessary bullshit and pain. I don’t recommend it. I have discovered that I handle rejection from white women well, but getting rejected by an Asian is something no white man should ever have the indignity of suffering. I have been blind-sided and rejected many times by Asian women that i had assumed didn’t need to be ‘gamed’. It took me totally by surprise and I was shocked that just being a ‘nice guy’ clearly wasn’t enough for her/them.
Here’s one for you Normal Nomad. I have discovered, much to my horror, that the women I have treated the worst seem to fall most hard for me. Their love for me is desperate and undying. The worse I treat them, the more deeply they fall. It is disgusting evidence of the true nature of women and how depraved that are.
I would much prefer being a nice guy. It’s less effort and feels more natural. The only problem is it DOESN’T WORK. Even in Manila. Women just seem to despise the whole ‘nice guy’ thing.
I’ve been the Nice Guy in my earlier years. It just sucks getting pushed around by women, and the women hate it too. They are almost screaming at you to man up Normal Nomad. Listen to them, they are giving you really helpful advice.
Jspill, you forgot about the much better burgos story.
I had matched with a little hottie on Tinder who had traveled into Manila to do some hooking. She was clearly very inexperienced because she asked for something like 1500 pesos (usual rate is 2k+ if i’m not mistaken. Might even be more than that).
I’m not usually into hookers, but it was a slow day, and I liked how green she seemed. Window of opportunity.
She was drinking at a sports bar somewhere in Burgos and wanted me to pick her up there. I was wandering around trying to find the bar, and I see Jspill across the street walking towards me.
I asked Jspill if he’d heard of the bar (he hadn’t), but we set off to find it together. After about 10 minutes we found it, and the girl is sitting there with 2 of her friends. I approach my girl and began to lead her back to Gramercy.
Jspill comes over and starts chatting to the 2 friends, sitting at the bar. Their eyes lit up, and the smile on Jspill’s face was priceless.
As I walked away with my girl, I looked back to see Jspill hitting it off with the 2 girls. This later led to a threesome for Jspill, unless i’m remembering incorrectly?
Yeah lol. I banged the other two for the same rate. They’d travelled in from Angeles where it’s a lot cheaper.
“Normal Nomad swears that non-jaded/easy-going women populate Manila. They don’t.”
Never did I state that.
I speak in generalizations about Filipinas/Asian women vs American/Western women.
IN GENERAL, ON AVERAGE, Filipinas are less jaded than American women. There are plenty of jaded Filipina prostitutes, single moms, druggies, etc. But compare the total population of Manilas women with say, Washington DC, a fair comparison since they’re both capitals, and I think you’ll agree that the DC women are far far worse ON AVERAGE. You can ALWAYS find exceptions to the rule, and I’m not white-knighting like every girl is an innocent princess. I know there are whores out there, but the fact that you lie to them to get them to sleep with you makes you a shitty person regardless. Just be upfront about it and you’ll STILL get laid PLENTY. That’s what I’m getting at. And there’s no reason to treat girls like shit if they don’t deserve it. If a girl is an entitled cunt, by all means, give her the deluxe Spirit Maze Treatment.
As for the “women don’t like nice guys”, I agree.
By “nice guy” I don’t mean blue pill bitch-boy. I mean a good, decent guy who treats people the way they treat him, but doesn’t take any bullshit either.
I’m genuinely friendly and kind to the women in my life. I’m also incredibly flaky, insensitive, and selfish.
The difference between you and I is that I don’t go out of my way to demean and abuse women. I genuinely like women. You do not. Sure, I might be an asshole sometimes—-but not out of spite, and not constantly. If a girl deserves me acting like an asshole, she won’t continue to be part of my life. No reason to treat her like shit.
I love women.
I treat them badly because it’s what they want. I simply respond to the market. If being nice got me more sex….trust me, I’d be nice. Being nice is less effort and easier.
If I hated women then i’d just go MGTOW and play video games instead.
Lying to filipinas is overkill, you’re right. However, it opens them way quicker than just going to usual route of building comfort and attraction. Getting women to trust us quickly gets us laid quickly.
Filipinas, in general, appear nice. But they are still women. You watch your nice filipina’s attitude change once she believes she has options and her SMV is high. That corruption takes place over the course of all the attention she gets from thirsty guys on the internet (Tinder, Instagram, Facebook etc).
Always remember this, Normal. No decent girl is going to meet a random guy off of the internet. That already lowers my perception of her. She doesn’t deserve any mercy.
My ideal ‘nice’ girl is not doing the rounds on Tinder. Even if she turns out to be an innocent, inexperienced girl. I know the only reason she is innocent and inexperienced is because I got there first. it’s only a matter of time before some other experienced player gets to her and eats her alive.
I’ve watched girls getting stolen from me, from right under my nose….because I was too slow.
One girl particularly comes to mind. I took it slow with her and took some time getting to know her. I even called her a few times for a chat (I usually never call girls). She was an extremely shy and conservative-seeming girl. The phone calls seemed to really work well. She seemed totally fascinated and absorbed with me. She seemed like she was falling in love.
I arranged a date with her, girl goes quiet on the day we are due to meet, no response to my texts. A week goes by and i’m wondering if she’s dead. I sent her a text a week later ‘are you still alive?’
I get a text back saying ‘sorry, I’m seeing someone else now :-p’
I was very nice to her. I assumed that because she was so shy and conservative, that ‘gaming’ her might frighten her away. I didn’t run any of my usual lines, I didn’t sexualize the conversations I had with her. I was very attentive and nice, listened to all her fears and dreams, gave her advice etc etc
Women are ruthless. They don’t need your protection, Normal. They are loving the cock carousal and instagram internet ‘fame’ they get from thirsty men.
I’ll change my ways when women stop preferring assholes, and indulging their stone age sexual preference/mate selection system.
That’s a nice straw man Spirit Maze.
You took what I said “Treat women like people, not shit.” and turned it around and made an argument against pedalizing them.
NO GIRL should be pedalized, ever. So that everyone is on the same page, I’m talking about “putting her on a pedestal”, aka thinking she’s above other girls, or above you.
Being a decent human being and using game aren’t at odds with each other, though I still hold to the fact that game is unnecessary here.
What you described wasn’t being a good guy—-it was being her bitch boy. Her shoulder to cry on. I’m an asshole, don’t ever get confused about it. I flake on girls, ignore there texts, forget other girls shit lying around my house where they see it, etc. I’m just not an asshole intentionally or without reason. Everytime I do something douchey it serves my own selfish interest, it’s not an intentional, planned attack action. You deliberately go out of your way to emotionally damage women who aren’t giving you reason to, because you have a warped view of women due to what apparently is an incredibly unhealthy relationship with women in what I assume is the USA, and probably with you mother as well. That’s all fine and well, but you’re taking it out on women who are pretty fucking nice. Again, YES, Pinays can be cunts, all women can. But go live in the USA and date for a year, then come back here and tell me how cunty they are.
Funny that there isn’t a cultural stereotype here of women cheating on the local guys—why is that? Is that a cultural stereotype in the USA? Hell yeah it is.
If you took every 6+ pinay and moved them to the USA for 2 years, how many would turn into entitled cunts? 80% at least. We agree on that. But the fact remains that they aren’t in the USA. If you’re dealing with a bunch of entitled cunts (who aren’t hot, i.e. 8+) I suggest you fish in a different pond, as I’m not dealing with the level of bullshit you are and I’m not even putting out the value/effort you are.
TL;DR: You’re projecting too much buddy.
The healthiest thing is really to walk away from toxic people (and places) altogether (all women, most men) but that leads to a monk like existence which isn’t everybody’s thing either.
Shut up. Dont fight, youre both losers and should team up. Thats what happens when youre around other expats too much, everything turns negative, you sit there and wind up the negativity in eachothers.
Manila is a great place if you know your way. Sure its full of annoyances but they are manageable. Whats the alternative? Bangkok, where things are even worse to handle and you risk becoming a ladyboy lover and future balcony jumper?
Dont let the whining get the best of you, and if you insist to continue: Go home if you hate Ph so much, noone is stopping you.
What a faggot. You sound like those of those pinoy dickriding, I’ve-been-here-for-ten-years-dammit, grampa expat who can’t bear to hear any negative commentary about the Philippines. Calm the fuck down.
Sometimes people need to blow off steam. After all we are foreigners here.
I discovered an awesome new Poosy Paradise that you guys would definitely be interested in. It’s call the Pet Store. And the best thing is that dogs and cats can’t speak english, so you can have non-consensual sex with them and they can’t even report you.
You heard it first from Spirit Maze. So when Roosh brings out his new book Bang Pet Stores, just remember that it was my idea!
Let’s examine a case example : https://www.nomadphilippines.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/doing-business-in-the-philippines-manila.jpg
Those 2 specimens on the left have monkey-like postures. If they were in a tree, there’d be not much difference
I think that photo is misleading for the readers Zebra. Most filipinas don’t look like that. 95% are shorter, fatter and look decidedly less human. Say nothing of the giant nigger/gorilla nostrils most of them sport.
I’d never fuck those 2 ones. Too dark. They are reserved for the nicer guys, like our sexpats here. Plus, I have a feeling that they don’t fit their clothes. Their $3 shoes look awkward, and what’s that grandmother skirt on the left one?
“I’d never fuck those 2 ones.”
Your native language is English? Hope not, else you come off as smart as a tree stump.
The girls in question, despite being English speakers, probably have the same English proficiency. Stop white knighting.
he’s French Frank. You racist prick. I bet you don’t hold your 40 year old single mom asian-hos to the same level.
‘Hellllloo Mr Sirrrrr Frank. Would you like to take me on holiday to Buracai? You pay for everything hehehehehe. Can I bring my 5 kids too??? Can you adopt them?? hehehe’
Spirit Maze, My gf is 18 with no kids. If she acts up I’ll slap her so hard she won’t wake up for a week. I’m not a captain save a ho. How about you shut the fuck up?
Dude, smacking a woman isn’t funny or cool, no matter who you are.
Unless she’s a giant and can actually cause you bodily harm, it’s better to just end the relationship than engage in that behavior. (If she’s capable of hurting you, i.e. your dating an MMA fighter chick, obviously defend yourself, lol)
Frank must be an Arab, judging by his stone age attitudes to women.
Throwing acid on women’s faces doesn’t solve your gamma and body hair issues Frank.
You belong in the sand dunes with the rest of those hook-nosed rapists.
You don’t do dates, NN?! How the fuck do you manage that?
I at least get them out to SM / Ayala before I decide what to do with them. Girls that wanna come directly to me are obvious pros OR low quality nonsense.
Had some overweight Cebuana say she wanted to come over, but I couldn’t be arsed. I’d rather not bring her through my building. Locals are secretly mocking me already.
Also, been trying to pull some of these so-called hiso filipinas in Cebu, but they just aint havin it. It’s gonna take me more than 1 date. LOL…yeah no. A lot of them look down on foreigners, but I bet I could pay her salary out of pocket at least 10 times.
I’m gonna stop here before I start trashing Cebuanos again.
I don’t directly say “Come to my place and let’s fuck.”
Obviously that’s not going to work for girls who have any decency.
Not going to spell out the exact method here but it’s very simple and it used to be popular in the USA before it became a meme. (I don’t want it becoming a meme here now lol)
Hi-so girls….never understood some guys fascination with them. Who cares what her salary is? Best sex I ever had was with a girl who worked at a Sari Sari store.
A lot of the “rich” girls here are like American-lite. Except they’re not even as wealthy as a girl fresh out of college with an associates degree working an entry level job. lol.
No real advantage to dating them over other girls, they just have bigger egos which provides me with nothing.
I don’t care if she’s rich or poor. Her attitude and looks are what matters.
As long as she isn’t asking or expecting money from me, her income means nothing.
You tell girls to come over to watch a movie?
You do know every girl that has access to internet knows exactly what that means. They might be Filipinos, but they aren’t that stupid when it comes to sex.
In my experience, a lot of them will, but the caveat is they are coming from a particular demographic and are usually cut from the same cloth.
Oh I know they will. I’m not denying that.
My point was more that girls aren’t stupid and this isn’t some top secret intel like NN seems to think. Girls just need one flimsy reason to say, “I didn’t plan on having sex. We were just supposed to do XXX alone in his apartment, but then sex happened lol.”
This stops them from feeling like sluts.
I’ve invited girls to my apartment for the dumbest reasons: look at travel photos, avoid the rain, watch a movie, listen to music, drop off a water bottle, etc.. The girls know what I want, but they’ll never admit, “I’m going to your apartment to have sex.”
I alsohave75 ETH Jspill I bought at200 dollars
Hope you sold it lol
I have a questions in relation to starting a business in the Philippines. I heard that foreigners can open a BPO and own it 100% as its not on the FINL. However I am wondering what VISA I would get to do this. As all working VISA’s require a large amount of capital, around $75,000.00 USD or $200,000.00 USD or even $2,000,000.00 USD. I wouldn’t want to put my personal house on the line for a business in the Philippines. But I really want to set up a business there. Note I have no ties to the Philippines at all, no Filipino wife etc. Please share your experiences on what Visa I can get. I saw one Visa where if I am going to hire 10 Filipino workers I can get a work Visa, but again, how would I enter the country to set up the business and hire 10 Filipino workers, the Visa checklist requires I provide 10 names and addresses of the Filipino workers. Any advise would be much appreciated, and not looking for advise on why I should not set up a business there, BPO’s options are either India or Philippines. I would Philippines over India any day, thanks.
Let me ask dagnasty. Not something I know anything about, they might know on Reddit Philippines, PI Addicts forum, Expat.com, etc.
Thats ok, I think i figured it out anways. Btw just got back from the Philippines, in 6 days i banged 14 different chicks. A total of 18 times. The stats were 5 x 8s, 4 x7s, 4 x 6s and 1 x 5. All from fc and none i paid for, although some i slipped them taxi money and bought them breakfast, lunch or dinner. Most refused taxi money. Gave no more than php 500 for taxis when I did give. Now you see my motivation to want to go back. I am not a handsome guy btw.
Got news for you:
No one who’s actually been to the Philippines believes you.
I’ve seen less than a dozen 8s during the entire year I’ve been here.
Either you have a really really scewed rating system or you’re completely full of shit.
Pinays have the worst genetics of any Asian race I’ve ever encountered. Not saying they’re unbangable, but there are not that many 7+s just hanging around. Especially for someone who admits he’s “not a handsome guy” and isn’t paying for it.
Fuck I’d challenge you to find me 5 PROFILES of 8+ girls in one city on FC LOL! (Ladyboys do not count). lol they are that uncommon here.
Guess it depends, one man’s 8s could be another man’s 6s. I’d be happy to rate if G wants to PM me pics on the FB page 🙂
You’ve been in Cebu most of the time right NN? I feel like I see hotter girls in Manila
I spent enough time in Manila to know the difference.
There are hotter girls in Manila. Or rather, there are MORE hot women in Manila. But there are MORE WOMEN in Manila. There are also more ugly women in Manila. The women of Manila are also significantly more flakey. I’m stating with 100% certainty there’s no way a first time guy banged 5 8s when he’s not even good looking in less than 2 weeks. I’m not hating, I’m being realistic.
If the same guy gave me those numbers in Bangkok, I’d have 0 trouble believing it. And I don’t even have yellow fever, I find hot Filipinas to be more attractive than hot Thais, (a Pinay 8 is more attractive than a Thai 8, is what I mean) there just are not that many attractive Filipinas in existence lol.
I also use FC, and the talent there just isn’t that good in general….I get views and messages from girls in Manila everyday, I don’t even need to visit to know this stuff (but for the record I’ve been to Manila and banged quite a few girls there).
I’m not shitting on the poster, just trying to be realistic to other readers: There’s a reason most expats end up in Thailand, and it isn’t the food.
> in 6 days i banged 14 different chicks
No, you did not
I don’t care if no one believes me, and its my second time I went there, I did a post on the first time I went on this forum its the one where an Indian got girls in Manila. Possible my ratings are off, as the longer you stay in a country the less hot the girls are and also if I am not a good looking guy a 6 for you might be an 8 for me . Either way was just stating that was my motivation for going back, if you want I can do a guest post again with pics and you can decide for yourself.
That was a great post – https://www.nomadphilippines.com/indian-guys
Sure, to a man who’s never eaten a Rib Eye steak, a burger from McDonlads tastes heavenly.
I’ve never even been to countries with some of the worlds hottest women (looking at you, Russia, Ukraine, Colombia), but even I know that saying you’ve banged that many Pinay 8’s in less than 2 weeks IN MANILA is just a complete fabrication.
If you told me you hopped around different islands banging Province girls from 3 separate towns no one had heard of I’d believe you in a heartbeat.
I’m just telling you as a white guy who’s been to Manila and uses FC daily—-there’s no way those stats are realistic given what you’ve described about yourself and your trip.
Even that weirdo Spirit Maze doesn’t claim those kinds of pulls and jspill said he looks like a model, and he’s the most egotistical braggart on the entire site here. He admits most of his bangs are 6’s and 7s and he puts in insane time and effort to get laid, plus has WGF and good looks.
Again, not trying to shit on you, just being realistic for other readers here. When I first came here after reading RVF I was thinking I was going to be banging models with 0 effort, that girls would more or less rape me when I stepped off the plane—all because idiots on the internet vastly over-exaggerated their experiences trying to one up the last idiot who talked about how well he did.
The reality is it’s really easy as a white guy to bang 5s and 6s. 7s are not hard to bang, but you’ll see them rather infrequently. You see an 8 about as often as you see a 10 in a typical USA city that isn’t LA or NYC, and 9’s are pretty much a Unicorn being ridden by a Mermaid mimicking the scene from ET where the boy and alien fly the bike in front of the moon.
THAT is an accurate description of the Phils. Manila included.
As I suspected:
Some choice quotes:
“I had only ever been with one woman before, and only kissed a handful of woman, with majority being strippers who kissed me, FYI, I only ever go strippers for stag/bucks events.”
“I only had taken her to Jollibee and Starbucks to which this day I regret so much as she deserved more than that, but we both agreed on Jollibee as I told her how much I loved it from last time I came to the Philippines and she only wanted to please me so she agreed, we both refrained from eating Jollibee leading up to our meet.
She was the most beautiful and sweetest girl I met on the whole trip, she was even more beautiful than her pictures she was at least an 8 in person. She was also so cute, when I held her hand, I could feel her shaking from excitement, she told me I was the first foreigner she met.”
“.I still regret this to this day as we both fell in love with each other, I walked her to the taxi and kissed and hugged her good bye, I still miss her till today.”
“she was perfect, her little giggles when I asked her questions, her height, her booty, her nice sized boobs, her personality, we fit so well together. I fell in love with her.”
“So I eventually woke her up, but before I did, I shoved a couple of thousand pesos in her purse to cover taxis. Whenever a girl visited me I always offered to pay the taxi to and from.”
“I felt really bad when we finished as I knew then she really did like me a lot and I knew I would probably never see her again. I almost wanted to cry myself as I really loved this girl. I accompanied her to her taxi and kissed and hugged her good bye.”
“Her face was beautiful, but she was too petite for my liking, maybe I was accustomed to fatter girls as they were my only option in Australia.
I decided to take her to the McDonalds across the street, maybe subconsciously I thought I could fatten her up, it was lucky too as she said she was hungry.”
So you seem to prefer fatter girls as well. Frankly if a chick has love handles there’s simply no way she’s an 8, right off the bat. Which 90% of pinays do due to the shitty diet they have and incredibly laziness.
So you’re banging slightly chubby (average here) Pinays with pretty to ok faces, you’re falling in love with about 30% of them, and you’ve admitted your experience with women prior to here is basically zilch.
There you have it. You put the pussy on a pedestal. Spend 6 months straight here then come back and tell me what rating the girls you banged were.
Full disclosure: My second girlfriend in the states was about a 6. She as slightly chubby but had really nice tits, and her face was meh. But at the time I was in love with her. I thought she was one of the most beautiful women I had ever seen.
Point being, the hungrier you are, the better food tastes, regardless of quality. You were starving when you came here, and you have been starving until your most recent trip as well, and due to that lack of “food” you highly overrate the taste of the sub-par McDonalds burger you consumed. It’s not a flaw with you personally, and I’m glad you see you’re not a liar, simply disillusioned by your own lack of experience. I’ve been there too. We’re all family here.
But tough love, truth is the sooner you realize it’s just pussy, the better. I like Pinays too, but I don’t pretend they’re angels who are beautiful, lol.
It also seems that almost every girl you met your first trip was a model and/or actress, which, lol, sure.
All in all your post helped enlighten me, and confirmed what I already knew—you’re definitely not banging 8’s, but at least you’re not a braggart or a liar. You just haven’t yet figured out that a McDonalds burger isn’t the best meat out there. Heck you might be eating a Joliebee burger even hahahah.
With more time things will be put into perspective and you’ll come back in a year or so and say, “Damn Nomad, you were right!”. Then you’ll either decide to stay and fuck meh girls or move elsewhere in Asia to bang girls who are actually beautiful.
Either way, it’s up to you, we’re all on the same journey at the end of the day. 🙂
ok. Either way, want to go back, happy to bang 5, 6, or 7 any day of the week.
Hey buddy, I’m with ya. Never been to Australia myself but I know the attitudes of women there are comparable to USA chicks. The personality of Pinays beat that of Western girls anyday of the week, even if most of the girls do look like they received a shovel to the face as infants lol.
Never intended to come across as an attack on you personally, just wanted to let other people reading your comments to realize it’s not some paradise with Victorias Secret models begging for cock lol. Because that’s what someone who has never set foot here would think based on your comments. I know because I thought that based on similar bullshit I’d read before I moved here from RVF. I was highly dissapointed with the reality of the situation.
Reality is that you will get more pussy in Russia and South America than Asia. I don’t need to pay for sex so maybe that is different.
Americans in Russia get more pussy than in Asia, without learning the local language?
Maybe if you look like Adonis, but there’s no way that’s true for the average guy.
That sounds very counter intuitive, and probably total BS
Spaniards imported corruption in the Philippines when they “discovered” the country. Don’t blame the Philippines.
Jspill, mind telling us where this posters IP is located? I’ve got a hunch it’s a Pinays who’s been burned, lol.
For the record, the “Philippines” at the time of Spanish colonization didn’t even have a native alphabet, much like Africa
See alot of resemblance to Meds, only with a 85 avg IQ on top of that mindset
Not sure why everyone insintuates Filipinos are stupid. Most Americans I’ve met are REALLY dumb. In fact, a lot of Filipinos have better spelling/grammar than the average American, at least if we’re looking at texts and online exchanges.
That’s NOT to say they’re geniuses, but to me, it seems like anytime you deal with a Filipino as an employee, their IQ drops to 60, but if you interact with them outside of their job, they’re intelligent. I think something about the culture or perhaps corporate environment makes them dumb cogs. They seem to be unable or unwilling to “think outside the box”. It’s especially bad when dealing with a Filipino over the phone for Customer service. An American will usually try out other avenues to help you, but Filipinos just say “Sorry sir, can’t help you sirrrr.”
Perhaps they simply aren’t given the leeway and autonomy Americans are? I have no idea, these are just guesses.
>Not sure why everyone insintuates Filipinos are stupid
Because those I cited are actual IQ stats maybe? And not just personal anecdotes.
The only philipino guy I actually know is very smart for instance.
But yea it oughta be a mix of genetics, culture and accidental current business ethics/management strategies (or lack thereof).
As for the rigid way of doing things you describe I’ve seen that in Japan too for instance, while in China it’s pretty much the opposite.
So who knows really
Long time reader, first time poster.
This is one of my favorite sites, but I feel like it’s starting to slow down.
I heard Dante left, but is there any chance of dragging him back?
Starting to slow down?
It’s grinded to a screeching halt lol.
I’ll start posting some of his old stuff that didn’t make it onto the blog yet
Here’s an update he posted on 2+2 forum:
there is no blogging going on, dont enjoy writing personal experiences anymore, dont really live a life that warrants it either
best recent story would be when i was at the mall with a 4/10 headache just wanting to hit and run with a number hand out (gotta get stats every day) and saw some curvy milf walking like 10 feet behind this guy, follow for a bit and they keep heading in the same direction but no eye contact, talking, could be together could be not
they both head up this really long escalator to the movie theater but he is like 4 steps in front of her…. in over 5 minutes zero interaction between the two… still kinda felt like they were together (marriage looks awesome!) but when i got off the escalator 30 seconds after them she was standing alone and he was nowhere in sight
i went up and started to give her my number and he turns the corner 20 feet away and starts walking right back to us, she is like what is this i mumble something stick it in her hand and walk briskly back to the long multi floor escalator
by the time i get to the bottom i look back and he is now on it, i briskly walk and check back and yup he is coming, i know this mall in and out and get to a nice area with many escalators and ways of escape, as i am going down one he catches up but is on the wrong side where esc is going up, he yells out to me to stop…. i go on a dead sprint in the way he wouldnt guess i would go run down 3 more floors and sneak outside
lmfao was it a Muslim guy? I can imagine being afraid in that scenario.
Yes lol the wife probably got beat that night
Completely off topic but where can I get UK style bacon? I love Asia but their bacon is fucking terrible
P.S Jspill I hope you pulled your nano position that was bad timing with the hack, overall a strong project it should be much higher in value. For now all eyes on Lisk!
I don’t remember having good bacon anywhere either
Yeah I did, dodged a bullet there.
Lisk is interesting, it was pumping even when bitcoin was dropping
Try to find a retired butcher from Europe to make it for you. Get in touch with other people from Europe and you will get the right contacts.